by Travalgar
<div>Appeasing the gods somehow nets you resources.</div>
<div>Appeasing the gods somehow nets you resources.</div>
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New Image for Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar
<div>Appeasing the gods somehow nets you resources.</div>
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Thread: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by kinkin_chk
Tzolkin is one of my favorite games.It is elegant and has a unique mechanic.
I used to play a lot with my copy and also online when it was first available on bga.
Unfortunately the fun faded out when the dominant strategy was developed.
I always wished that there is an elegant way to fix the issue for Uxmal gambit opening for first player and the big resource strategy.
This morning when I was travelling to the office, I come out with an idea about this.
Why not we just remove Uxmal 3 completely?
Instead, we change the rule so that after the (first, second & third) food day, we will get an extra worker for free automatically.
Then we can make use of Uxmal 3 and assign a new function that can give a little boost for the weaker path to balance the thing out.
Do you think this may work?
Obviously, I did not think veru carefully yet but I want to share this idea first.
The Uxmal Gambit is removed completely.
Also delaying the forth worker should make the big resource strategy longer setup time,
as it will reduce the total amount of resources that they have on hand for exchanging corns/woods.
While the change does not disable the big resource strategy, it should give other strategies a chance/space they need.
For the new Uxmal 3 function, I have some brief ideas.
1. Exchange a corn/wood tile to exchange a collect corn/wood action on Palenque 5 (with tech bonus)
This should give the big corn strategy a boost.
(5 corn/2 wood Palenque3 compared to 9 corn/4 wood in new Uxmal 3)
Mathematically the corn/wood tile now worths 4 corn/2 wood. (we can add a transaction cost like 2 corn if it worths too much)
2. Exchange 2 corn for a skull (4 corn for 2 skull with tech bonus)
This should give the skull strategy a boost.
3. Upgrade the tech one time with corn (2 corn for each resource)
Similar function like Uxmal 4, but works for tech.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by PaulGrogan
I have a very simple house rule which I use and was given permission to use it at UK tournaments."In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by Travalgar
PaulGrogan wrote:
I have a very simple house rule which I use and was given permission to use it at UK tournaments.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
Yesterday, I played and won my first game ever of Tzolk'in, against two players, with one of them a veteran of the game, but had not played it since a year ago. He got first turn and immediately put two workers on Uxmal. He finished third.
Because that was my first Tzolk'in game, I don't really know how he failed, other than more corns spent for placing multiple workers and feeding them earlier in the game. Care to share with a newbie why this is a dominant strategy?
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by Gary Duke
Travalgar wrote:
PaulGrogan wrote:
I have a very simple house rule which I use and was given permission to use it at UK tournaments.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
Yesterday, I played and won my first game ever of Tzolk'in, against two players, with one of them a veteran of the game, but had not played it since a year ago. He got first turn and immediately put two workers on Uxmal. He finished third.
Because that was my first Tzolk'in game, I don't really know how he failed, other than more corns spent for placing multiple workers and feeding them earlier in the game. Care to share with a newbie why this is a dominant strategy?
Two workers on Uxmal turn 1 isn't a dominant strategy. Placing all three workers on Uxmal on turn 1 is, because you can use the first and third of them to reach 5 workers by turn 5 and still get other things done in the meantime. If you're good enough at managing the rest of the game, this is an insurmountable advantage.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by lelechuck
Gary Duke wrote:
Travalgar wrote:
PaulGrogan wrote:
I have a very simple house rule which I use and was given permission to use it at UK tournaments.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
Yesterday, I played and won my first game ever of Tzolk'in, against two players, with one of them a veteran of the game, but had not played it since a year ago. He got first turn and immediately put two workers on Uxmal. He finished third.
Because that was my first Tzolk'in game, I don't really know how he failed, other than more corns spent for placing multiple workers and feeding them earlier in the game. Care to share with a newbie why this is a dominant strategy?
Two workers on Uxmal turn 1 isn't a dominant strategy. Placing all three workers on Uxmal on turn 1 is, because you can use the first and third of them to reach 5 workers by turn 5 and still get other things done in the meantime. If you're good enough at managing the rest of the game, this is an insurmountable advantage.
Is this strategy written down somewhere? I see it referenced on BGG all over- but don't actually see it articulated as step-by-step?
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by spartax
Turn 1, place all 3 workers on Uxmal 0,1,2 for 6 corn.Turn 2, pull 1 worker from Uxmal 3 to get your 4th worker.
Turn 3, place your two available workers wherever you want.
Turn 4, pull workers from Uxmal. You can get two new workers by paying 1 corn (going back 1 space from Uxmal 4) or you can get 1 worker (for a total of 5) and leave the other on Uxmal to use space 5 next turn or the turn after.
I wouldn't call this a strategy (it's a 4-turn combo in a 23+ turn game), but it's a very effective opening tactic that works well with many strategies: Big Corn, Resources, etc.
What do you do if the first player starts this opening? I'd be inclined to place U4 and one or two more workers elsewhere, planning to use U5 next turn to take whatever space you want. This means you have to have a good amount of corn from your starting wealth tiles. Also pushing the calendar forward towards the first feeding day (double-spinning) will tighten the pressure on the player who has six mouths to feed.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
You can also search this forum for “Uxmal Gambit”, it’s discussed by that name quite a bit I believe.
Here is one such thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1038126/guide-main-strategi...
Here is one such thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1038126/guide-main-strategi...
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by PaulGrogan
I ran a tournament once without the rule.Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
PaulGrogan wrote:
I ran a tournament once without the rule.
Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
It is an excellent rule.
Another very nice suggestion I've heard is swapping U2 and U4. Another one was to limit U2 exchanges to "20 corn units".
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by kinkin_chk
PaulGrogan wrote:
I have a very simple house rule which I use and was given permission to use it at UK tournaments.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
"In the first round of the game, no player may place more than 1 worker on Uxmal."
That's it. Fixes the dominant strategy without affecting the rest of the game.
Yes, I think I saw this rule in other posts.
Does it in work well in your tournament?
Did it have any impact against the big resource strategy also?
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by PaulGrogan
kinkin_chk wrote:
Yes, I think I saw this rule in other posts.
Does it in work well in your tournament?
Did it have any impact against the big resource strategy also?
Does it in work well in your tournament?
Did it have any impact against the big resource strategy also?
It worked well the next tournament I ran.
There is also a common rule (which I know the designer agrees with) of limiting Uxmal 2 to 20 corn.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by kinkin_chk
spartax wrote:
This opening doesn't bother me. It's part of the game but doesn't dominate it any more than e4 in chess. The resource strategy abusing Yax 5 and Uxmal 2 is more troublesome in my mind - I might like to see a limit on the amount of resources that can be exchanged at U2 in a given action.
I really wish there is some ways to bring back the balance as the game was really really great before we developed this on bga.
The big resource strategy is way too strong as you can even manage to go for the Chichenitza wheel after emptying the buildings.
The issue is not easy to solve as it is not an issue for a particular action, but a combination of play that makes it so strong. (actually the actions are well balance with a 2-corn difference between each space)
The game is very elegant, but it also means there is very few rooms for any modifications/adjustments.
Removing the Uxmal 3 could be a way to give us room to do some necessary balancing for strategies. In any case, we would want to get a new worker some time during the game. Making it automatic to give you a free worker is something you would want to do in any way.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by kinkin_chk
Another tournament!! The players are really lucky as you are running it for them! It really takes a lot of efforts to organize one.Yes, I saw the suggestion for the limit.
I was just a bit reluctant to use an arbitrary limit to nerf
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by pipperoni
PaulGrogan wrote:
I ran a tournament once without the rule.
Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
This is wild! Very interesting, I would love to learn more details about the tournament setup if you don't mind sharing. Were these 4 player games? Just the base game? How many games? What were typical end game scores? Were any of the other rule mods used (ie 20 corn)?
I've played my share in BaJ games (and BGA too, but BGA is less forgiving interface), I've found I enjoy the base game with 20 corn limit or expansion without limit. I've always thought that the Uxmal gambit can be overcome by astute play but requires more brain power. I guess I was wrong? Sometimes I wish there were easy ways to extract statistics from BaJ games.
That said I do like the simplicity of your one worker on Uxmal rule. Creates some interesting effects, namely all of a sudden I would probably prefer to go third or forth.
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by PaulGrogan
4 player games. Base game only. No other house rules.Can’t remember the end game scores, was a while back :)
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Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Just a random idea: Removing Uxmal 3 from the game?
by spartax
PaulGrogan wrote:
I ran a tournament once without the rule.
Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
Round 1 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 2 - every single game was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Round 3 - the final. was won by the first player who did the Uxmal gambit.
Yep, that's right... every single game.
After this, CGE allowed me to use my house rule for future tournaments.
OK, I stand corrected. I haven't seen it that dominant in my local games, but no doubt we play at a lower level.
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Thread: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Clarification on Temple-Steps Monument
by Khoodos
There's a discrepancy with the monument for 3 points per temple step in one chosen temple. The rulebook depicts the tile with only the steps above the starting step highlighted red, whereas on the tile itself, the starting step is also highlighted, indicating it should also count for 3 points.Surely the rulebook graphic was copied from the tile's image file, so it is unlikely the rulebook was changed after the tile. This seems to indicate that the tile was rebalanced before production but the rulebook was mistakenly not updated? Is there clarification from the designer/publisher or community consensus on which image is correct?
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Thread: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: 1/4 point per corn
by Khoodos
The rulebook instructs that during endgame scoring, each corn is worth 1/4 point. But the scoring track only accounts for integer values, and the precedent set by other Eurogames appears to be integer scoring. So if I have 13 corn at the end of the game, is that worth 3.25 points or just 3 points? That is, do I take the rules as written at face value, or do I take it to mean "score 1 point for every 4 corn" instead?↧
Reply: Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar:: General:: Re: Clarification on Temple-Steps Monument
by stevozip
The picture might be wrong but I would think the words are what you should check for understanding it's effect.Choose one temple. Count the
number of steps your marker is
above the starting space. Score 3
victory points for each step.
number of steps your marker is
above the starting space. Score 3
victory points for each step.
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